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	<title>Comments on: A comment abount SD, CFS Schedulers,from ULE&#8217;s author</title>
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	<link>http://www.opslife.com/jeffr-comment-about-sd-and-cfs/</link>
	<description>人生不过是一场旷日持久却又无法rollback的operation而已</description>
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		<title>By: Guruchel</title>
		<link>http://www.opslife.com/jeffr-comment-about-sd-and-cfs/comment-page-1/#comment-342</link>
		<dc:creator>Guruchel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2008 18:40:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dawnh.net/weblog/240/jeffr-comment-about-sd-and-cfs/#comment-342</guid>
		<description>Nice Site! Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice Site! Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: fcicq</title>
		<link>http://www.opslife.com/jeffr-comment-about-sd-and-cfs/comment-page-1/#comment-341</link>
		<dc:creator>fcicq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Aug 2007 15:53:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dawnh.net/weblog/240/jeffr-comment-about-sd-and-cfs/#comment-341</guid>
		<description>Q: I&#039;m very curious about what the future holds for file systems in the kernel. What do you think about Reiser4, XFS4, ZFS and the new project founded by Oracle? ZFS has been receiving a lot of press these days. Reiser4 delivers very good benchmarks, and xfs4 is trying to keep up, whereas the one by Oracle has a lot of the same specs as Sun&#039;s ZFS. Where are we heading? Which FS looks the most promising in your opinion? -- Ayvind Binde.

Linus: Actually, just yesterday we had a git performance issue, where ZFS was orders of magnitude slower than UFS for one user (not under Linux, but git is gaining a lot of traction even outside of kernel development). So I think a lot of the &#039;new file system&#039; mania is partly fed by knowing about the issues with old filesystems, and then the (somewhat unrealistic) expectation that a &#039;new and improved&#039; filesystem will make everything perfect.

In the end, this is one area where you just let people fight it out. See who comes out the winner -- and it doesn&#039;t need to be (and likely will not) be a single winner. Almost always, the right choice of file system ends up depending on the load and circumstances.

One thing that I&#039;m personally more excited about than any of the filesystems you mention is actually the fact that Flash-based hard disks are quickly becoming available even for &#039;normal&#039; users. Sure, they&#039;re still expensive (and fairly small), but Flash-based storage has such a different performance profile from rotating media, that I suspect that it will end up having a large impact on filesystem design. Right now, most filesystems tend to be designed with the latencies of rotating media in mind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Q: I&#8217;m very curious about what the future holds for file systems in the kernel. What do you think about Reiser4, XFS4, ZFS and the new project founded by Oracle? ZFS has been receiving a lot of press these days. Reiser4 delivers very good benchmarks, and xfs4 is trying to keep up, whereas the one by Oracle has a lot of the same specs as Sun&#8217;s ZFS. Where are we heading? Which FS looks the most promising in your opinion? &#8212; Ayvind Binde.</p>
<p>Linus: Actually, just yesterday we had a git performance issue, where ZFS was orders of magnitude slower than UFS for one user (not under Linux, but git is gaining a lot of traction even outside of kernel development). So I think a lot of the &#8216;new file system&#8217; mania is partly fed by knowing about the issues with old filesystems, and then the (somewhat unrealistic) expectation that a &#8216;new and improved&#8217; filesystem will make everything perfect.</p>
<p>In the end, this is one area where you just let people fight it out. See who comes out the winner &#8212; and it doesn&#8217;t need to be (and likely will not) be a single winner. Almost always, the right choice of file system ends up depending on the load and circumstances.</p>
<p>One thing that I&#8217;m personally more excited about than any of the filesystems you mention is actually the fact that Flash-based hard disks are quickly becoming available even for &#8216;normal&#8217; users. Sure, they&#8217;re still expensive (and fairly small), but Flash-based storage has such a different performance profile from rotating media, that I suspect that it will end up having a large impact on filesystem design. Right now, most filesystems tend to be designed with the latencies of rotating media in mind.</p>
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		<title>By: fcicq</title>
		<link>http://www.opslife.com/jeffr-comment-about-sd-and-cfs/comment-page-1/#comment-340</link>
		<dc:creator>fcicq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Aug 2007 15:50:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dawnh.net/weblog/240/jeffr-comment-about-sd-and-cfs/#comment-340</guid>
		<description>http://www.networkmirror.com/1FDFr2fg9hle84Mz/www.efytimes.com/efytimes/21160/news.htm

Q: Why do you think CFS is better than SD?

Linus: Part of it is that I have worked with Ingo [Molnar] for a long time, which means that I know him, and know that he&#039;ll be very responsive to any issues that come up. That kind of thing is very important.

But part of it is simply about numbers. Most people out there actually say that CFS is better than SD. Including, very much, on 3D games (which people claimed was a strong point of SD).

At the same time, though, I don&#039;t think any piece of code is ever &#039;&#039;perfect&#039;&#039;. The best thing to happen is that the people who want to be proponents of SD will try to improve that so much that the balance tips over the other way -- and we&#039;ll keep both camps trying interesting things because the internal competition motivates them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.networkmirror.com/1FDFr2fg9hle84Mz/www.efytimes.com/efytimes/21160/news.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.networkmirror.com/1FDFr2fg9hle84Mz/www.efytimes.com/efytimes/21160/news.htm</a></p>
<p>Q: Why do you think CFS is better than SD?</p>
<p>Linus: Part of it is that I have worked with Ingo [Molnar] for a long time, which means that I know him, and know that he&#8217;ll be very responsive to any issues that come up. That kind of thing is very important.</p>
<p>But part of it is simply about numbers. Most people out there actually say that CFS is better than SD. Including, very much, on 3D games (which people claimed was a strong point of SD).</p>
<p>At the same time, though, I don&#8217;t think any piece of code is ever &#8221;perfect&#8221;. The best thing to happen is that the people who want to be proponents of SD will try to improve that so much that the balance tips over the other way &#8212; and we&#8217;ll keep both camps trying interesting things because the internal competition motivates them.</p>
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		<title>By: fcicq</title>
		<link>http://www.opslife.com/jeffr-comment-about-sd-and-cfs/comment-page-1/#comment-339</link>
		<dc:creator>fcicq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2007 17:07:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dawnh.net/weblog/240/jeffr-comment-about-sd-and-cfs/#comment-339</guid>
		<description>继续牢骚:

哪个大牛不顺眼把这个给改了!....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>继续牢骚:</p>
<p>哪个大牛不顺眼把这个给改了!&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: fcicq</title>
		<link>http://www.opslife.com/jeffr-comment-about-sd-and-cfs/comment-page-1/#comment-338</link>
		<dc:creator>fcicq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2007 16:43:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dawnh.net/weblog/240/jeffr-comment-about-sd-and-cfs/#comment-338</guid>
		<description>撞雷了... :D :D

2.6.22
grep &quot;generic_sy&quot; include/linux/fs.h
extern void generic_sync_sb_inodes(struct super_block *, struct writeback_control *);

2.6.23

extern int generic_sync_sb_inodes(struct super_block *, struct writeback_control *);</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>撞雷了&#8230; <img src='http://www.opslife.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' />  <img src='http://www.opslife.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>2.6.22<br />
grep &#8220;generic_sy&#8221; include/linux/fs.h<br />
extern void generic_sync_sb_inodes(struct super_block *, struct writeback_control *);</p>
<p>2.6.23</p>
<p>extern int generic_sync_sb_inodes(struct super_block *, struct writeback_control *);</p>
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		<title>By: fcicq</title>
		<link>http://www.opslife.com/jeffr-comment-about-sd-and-cfs/comment-page-1/#comment-337</link>
		<dc:creator>fcicq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2007 16:19:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dawnh.net/weblog/240/jeffr-comment-about-sd-and-cfs/#comment-337</guid>
		<description>报告一下战况...

从mm2里面抽的reiser4不错,能编译... :D

未经严格检测

另外踩一踩CFS的地雷...
感觉 SD 好像真有一点点问题一样.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>报告一下战况&#8230;</p>
<p>从mm2里面抽的reiser4不错,能编译&#8230; <img src='http://www.opslife.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>未经严格检测</p>
<p>另外踩一踩CFS的地雷&#8230;<br />
感觉 SD 好像真有一点点问题一样.</p>
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		<title>By: dawnh</title>
		<link>http://www.opslife.com/jeffr-comment-about-sd-and-cfs/comment-page-1/#comment-336</link>
		<dc:creator>dawnh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2007 02:16:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dawnh.net/weblog/240/jeffr-comment-about-sd-and-cfs/#comment-336</guid>
		<description>恩,按道理说确实本应该是glibc的malloc实现的问题,但加了CFS反倒好像能规避掉这个问题似的.不过CFS的曲线也十分不正常,不是整体性能高低,关键是2-4-6-8之间的折线斜率变化很不正常.
关于freebsd下mysql性能差,里面的故事还挺曲折的,大体是FreeBSD5之前的版本用户级线程库几乎不怎么可用,导致mysql性能极端低下,而5这个版本开始采用了KSE作为线程调度单位,实现了复杂的M:N模型，理论上性能应该会很好，但由于mysql设计本身根本没考虑到M:N的问题，很不幸得继续低下。再之后FreeBSD6发布后的一段时间，又出现了1：1的libthr，用了这玩艺之后，FreeBSD的mysql性能终于可以跟Linux相提并论了，再加上ULE助力，这才在SMP下跑mysql得以扬眉吐气。</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>恩,按道理说确实本应该是glibc的malloc实现的问题,但加了CFS反倒好像能规避掉这个问题似的.不过CFS的曲线也十分不正常,不是整体性能高低,关键是2-4-6-8之间的折线斜率变化很不正常.<br />
关于freebsd下mysql性能差,里面的故事还挺曲折的,大体是FreeBSD5之前的版本用户级线程库几乎不怎么可用,导致mysql性能极端低下,而5这个版本开始采用了KSE作为线程调度单位,实现了复杂的M:N模型，理论上性能应该会很好，但由于mysql设计本身根本没考虑到M:N的问题，很不幸得继续低下。再之后FreeBSD6发布后的一段时间，又出现了1：1的libthr，用了这玩艺之后，FreeBSD的mysql性能终于可以跟Linux相提并论了，再加上ULE助力，这才在SMP下跑mysql得以扬眉吐气。</p>
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		<title>By: fcicq</title>
		<link>http://www.opslife.com/jeffr-comment-about-sd-and-cfs/comment-page-1/#comment-335</link>
		<dc:creator>fcicq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Aug 2007 16:57:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dawnh.net/weblog/240/jeffr-comment-about-sd-and-cfs/#comment-335</guid>
		<description>1 mm对偶的唯一作用是提取patch,偶才不会全打上. :D
2 当然是双路
3 实际上更想试试tcmalloc+CFS会是什么效果
总觉得CFS在给glibc补缺陷一样.虽然好像不应该这么说
tcmalloc才是一个真正意义上给glibc在线程方面加力的东西.从图上可以看出来的.
(另外freebsd以前在mysql上表现不佳是什么原因?)

当然,如果能给SD一个跑跑的机会也不错(不过不测也罢,SD主要对桌面)
4 不用gtalk可以用别的嘛...
psi,gajim,gaim(pidgin),加上google官方的方法,都能上.看了.
输你现在的mail就可以.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1 mm对偶的唯一作用是提取patch,偶才不会全打上. <img src='http://www.opslife.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
2 当然是双路<br />
3 实际上更想试试tcmalloc+CFS会是什么效果<br />
总觉得CFS在给glibc补缺陷一样.虽然好像不应该这么说<br />
tcmalloc才是一个真正意义上给glibc在线程方面加力的东西.从图上可以看出来的.<br />
(另外freebsd以前在mysql上表现不佳是什么原因?)</p>
<p>当然,如果能给SD一个跑跑的机会也不错(不过不测也罢,SD主要对桌面)<br />
4 不用gtalk可以用别的嘛&#8230;<br />
psi,gajim,gaim(pidgin),加上google官方的方法,都能上.看了.<br />
输你现在的mail就可以.</p>
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		<title>By: dawnh</title>
		<link>http://www.opslife.com/jeffr-comment-about-sd-and-cfs/comment-page-1/#comment-334</link>
		<dc:creator>dawnh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Aug 2007 16:24:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dawnh.net/weblog/240/jeffr-comment-about-sd-and-cfs/#comment-334</guid>
		<description>从来没追过-mm，忽略了，sorry。
这幅图应该是稍稍有点过时了，这幅图的测试的时候使用的调度器应该是CFS还没进入mainline的时候，不过性能应该基本定下来了。还要注意的是这幅图上的ULE为ULE 2.0。而那个SCHED_SMP则是ULE 2.0针对SMP做进一步优化的一个fork，而这个SCHED_SMP在上个月正式合并回ULE后催生了ULE 3.0。记得jeff大牛后来还放过一个ULE3.0的测试图来的，那个折线还能再高挑一点，但这个新图没有对CFS的对比，不幸的是我忘记看过的哪篇文章贴过这图了。
现在单CPU的8核服务器还不好找，不过双路4核的就很普遍了，很多类似的测试都是在双路4核服务器跑下来的。
google talk从来没玩过，有机会的话玩玩看。</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>从来没追过-mm，忽略了，sorry。<br />
这幅图应该是稍稍有点过时了，这幅图的测试的时候使用的调度器应该是CFS还没进入mainline的时候，不过性能应该基本定下来了。还要注意的是这幅图上的ULE为ULE 2.0。而那个SCHED_SMP则是ULE 2.0针对SMP做进一步优化的一个fork，而这个SCHED_SMP在上个月正式合并回ULE后催生了ULE 3.0。记得jeff大牛后来还放过一个ULE3.0的测试图来的，那个折线还能再高挑一点，但这个新图没有对CFS的对比，不幸的是我忘记看过的哪篇文章贴过这图了。<br />
现在单CPU的8核服务器还不好找，不过双路4核的就很普遍了，很多类似的测试都是在双路4核服务器跑下来的。<br />
google talk从来没玩过，有机会的话玩玩看。</p>
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		<title>By: fcicq</title>
		<link>http://www.opslife.com/jeffr-comment-about-sd-and-cfs/comment-page-1/#comment-333</link>
		<dc:creator>fcicq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Aug 2007 14:59:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dawnh.net/weblog/240/jeffr-comment-about-sd-and-cfs/#comment-333</guid>
		<description>你都不仔细看,偶要rc2-mm1 :)
踩雷也要对应版本

研究研究这个神奇的图?
http://people.freebsd.org/~jeff/sysbench.png

ps: 谁有8核服务器?

ps2: 看你用的是Google Apps,
上面有googletalk不?如有发邮件说明一下什么时候出没.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>你都不仔细看,偶要rc2-mm1 <img src='http://www.opslife.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
踩雷也要对应版本</p>
<p>研究研究这个神奇的图?<br />
<a href="http://people.freebsd.org/~jeff/sysbench.png" rel="nofollow">http://people.freebsd.org/~jeff/sysbench.png</a></p>
<p>ps: 谁有8核服务器?</p>
<p>ps2: 看你用的是Google Apps,<br />
上面有googletalk不?如有发邮件说明一下什么时候出没.</p>
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